Evolving as a Clinician with Ashley Campbell - Episode 7

As members of a service-based industry, healthcare and fitness professionals are faced with the constant pressure to help people.

That's why we do what we do, right? To help people.

Unfortunately, we don't always focus on ourselves, leading to things like burnout, imposter syndrome, and stress.

In this episode of The Sports Physical Therapy Podcast, I'm joined by Ashley Campbell, editor of IJSPT. Ashley shares some of her journey and strategies on constantly evolving as a clinician.

Full show notes: https://mikereinold.com/evolving-as-a-clinician-with-ashley-campbell

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Transcript

Introduction: 0:34

On this episode of the sports physical therapy podcast, I am joined by Ashley Campbell ashley is the director of rehab at the Nashville hip Institute in the managing editor of the international journal of sports, physical therapy, among many other things. In this episode, we're going to talk about seeking out mentorship. Evolving as a clinician in dealing with things like burnout and imposter syndrome.

Mike: 1:06

Hey, Ashley, how's it going? Welcome to the podcast.

Ashley: 1:08

Hey, thanks for having me.

Mike: 1:10

I'm really excited about this episode because I think the topic is going to be really neat. And I think it's something that when I talked to our students at champion and a lot of early career professionals online, I know that they have a lot of questions about these topics. So I I'm really excited about, so thanks for coming on and sharing this stuff with us.

Ashley: 1:30

Yeah, I appreciate you asking me. And, um, I've listened to all of the ones so far that have come out. So I feel like I have a lot to live up to. I mean, I'm coming right after Lenny.

Mike: 1:40

I mean.

Ashley: 1:40

at least what I listened to is Lenny.

Mike: 1:42

Exactly. Right. So I will say, you know, it's funny, um, you know, I've done a lot of these now and there's a bunch kind of queuing up, right. Um, that, that are going to come out. But, uh, it's, there's been some really good episodes and, um,

Ashley: 1:56

it's been awesome.

Mike: 1:57

I've told people this I'm so selfish about this because I'm having a blast. And like, I remember like Lenny and I finished that episode of that. I just like sat back And said like, that's going to be a good episode. Right? Like,

Ashley: 2:09

saw it. If you haven't listened to it, definitely go back and listen to it. Cause it's really solid.

Mike: 2:13

Yeah. And, you know, I felt that way with others too, but like, I just, you know, um, I, you know, I'm excited about it because even just preparing for these episodes, I'm having a blast, like just digging into, you know, you know, certain topics and people it's been great. So, uh, but again, thanks. So, uh, before we get into the meat of this episode, uh, you're the managing editor of the international journal sports physical therapy, which is pretty cool. And that means you get to do. Uh, you're doing a lot, obviously for the profession, but you get to see a ton of research. That's coming out, both that's published and not published. Right. But, um, so that's a crazy experience that you get to see all those sorts of things. But, you know, being an editor is not an easy job. And I hope people understand that you have probably one of the thankless jobs in the world, right. You and majorly baseball umpires, I think are probably the, you know, like where people don't realize how much work you put in behind the scenes to get these publications going for our benefit. So one thank you. And to, um, once you give us an update on and what's going on with.

Ashley: 3:20

Sure. Sure. So, yeah, we took a republication, uh, when the academy made the decision. Um, cut that expense from the budget back at the end of 2020, we kind of jumped in and decided to take over the publication through north American sports medicine Institute. Um, so our first full year under that was last year, 2021, we published six issues and I looked at this morning over 150 articles in those six issues, which was awesome. Um, we will be on track to have for sure, at least. Uh, issues this year, potentially eight, if we can pull off a second, the medic issue this year, um, and we've had well over 500 submissions in the last year or less. Um, it was just awesome. I mean, they just keep rolling in. So it's been super exciting, um, for people who don't know and open access online publications. Simply means that it's free to everyone out there it's free to you. It's free to the general public to go and see and read. Um, it's also free to publish in, which is, uh, for those who don't publish or haven't published, that's kind of a rarity these days. So we don't have a publishing fee. We have a small, um, submission fee that helps offset some of our expenses. But outside of that, if your paper gets accepted in the journal, there's no fee to you to publish it. So our sponsors help kind of carry the weight of that burden. It's just super cool, because I think there's so much good stuff going on out there. And sometimes there's a lot of barriers to getting that information out there. So we're having a ton of fun with it. I think at the end, we might talk about maybe what's coming up with that or I can allude to that too. So.

Mike: 4:56

Uh, I mean, and that's awesome. The journal is doing such a great job. I think when you make a journal and you start with the clinician in mind first, right? Because your clinicians, right. The people behind the scenes at IJ SPT are the clinical people. I think that's why you see a lot of, um, the pros of that journal. Like you said, no submission fees, which is enormous, right. Or no publication fees, which is enormous because that is getting out of hand now. And, you know, instead of letting the publishers. You know, lead the way what you guys are doing is taking control from the clinician's perspective and making it a great experience. So that's awesome. The other thing I love about IGT is just the clinical implications from, you know, the, the publications I think are top notch. And that's one of the fun things I like to read about the journal here is there's so many articles, each issue that comes out that you. Take a step back. And he said like, oh, you know what, I'm going to do this a little different because of this article. And, you know, I don't feel that way about some of the other, you know, journal sometimes. So you, you know, great job with IGS, BT, I think it's, it's especially being open access. It's amazing if you're not subscribed and you're not checking out those issues when they come out you're well, you're crazy. But two is get on,

Ashley: 6:06

Yes, I do spt.org and sign up.

Mike: 6:09

Yeah. no, I mean, to me, that's, that's, that's a no brainer. So, um, so awesome. Thanks for the update, Ashley. I appreciate that. Um, so recently I read this in IJ SBT, but you wrote a nice editorial piece. And I think the title was, I wrote this in my notes, but the title is the pursuit of happiness. And I mean, you might've liked. But, um, I, you. know, I like articles like this and I Appreciate the reflection based articles when people, you know, dig in deep and speak from the heart a little bit too, not just from the mind and journal, which I thought was awesome, but, you know, w what made you write this editorial? Um, and you know, and that. could be a big question in and of itself, but I'm just curious.

Ashley: 6:47

Um, oh gosh, what was my brain thinking back then? Um, I think that came from a little bit of a place of me reflecting on the fact that I realized that I was now on the back, like on the other side of the decade, mark of my clinical practice, which I, I know for a lot of people it's like, oh, that's not that much. But to me, I was like, holy crap, it's been over a decade. I've been a practicing therapist and all these other things that I'm doing. And I'm like, man, There's just been a lot. Um, and so I started thinking about like, kind of the young clinician, what I'm seeing. I imagined faculty at Belmont, um, here in Nashville and I take students and things like that. And, um, I kind of watched them and I realized how much older I actually am, like at least career wise, compared to where they're at. And I just kind of started thinking about like how I got here. Well, could I, what advice could I give people who are looking at my career? Not that it's something to be envious of or anything, but thinking like, man, that's really cool that she's done that. Like, what did I do? Or how did I get here? What were the, what were the little things that I did to keep kind of doing this without completely like crashing and burning? So.

Mike: 7:53

Yeah. And I think you're being a little humble. I do think you have a career track that many people should be envious of. Um, and I like how you, you dip into a bunch of different buckets, right? I mean, your, your position, um, in the rehab world. With, with hip patients and other people too. But you know, obviously like your position clinical, your, you know, like you said, adjunct faculty, which is amazing. And then you also have like, you know, I don't want to call it a side gate cause that's never fair, but like you're, you're, you're, you're, you're dipping into the golf world with some of your performance-based, uh, things are awesome and we still haven't even gotten to IJ SBT. So, you know, I don't, so, you know, as I list that all out now, I actually wonder if I'm envious or not, perhaps, perhaps.

Ashley: 8:38

the same way about you.

Mike: 8:40

But perhaps we shouldn't be enemies of that, but, uh, but you. know, pretty amazing stuff you call accomplished. So, um, you know, it was, it was great to see that and I like how you took the time to do that. And you said, Yeah. you're at the 10 year mark. I do think that's a big, I do think like the decade approaches. Pretty important. And even when I reflect back on the last, you know, um, I'm over 20 years now. So I, my year to 20 year mark, I think I've evolved so much as a clinician. So I'm looking forward to see what your next decade is, uh, is going to be about. So exactly. Um, well, one of the things you talked about in the article that I think I'm hearing a lot of lately on social media, there's a little bit more attention to, this is the concept of burnout, right? And there's a lot of young professionals and middle career professionals. I think that our experiences at times, so why don't we start. Why do you think that this is, why do you think so many people are feeling burnt out and then obviously what would you recommend they do? And, and, you know, I like how, you know, you. said this in corresponds to me, but it's, it's evolving as a clinician. I like that phrase. Right. And I think that does help people, but, um, why do you think that is.

Ashley: 9:54

Yeah, I think there's a couple of different things. And I'm going to maybe answer a little bit, your second question to start. And I think it really starts with, if anyone's listening to this who isn't in PT school, or isn't already a clinician, but is wanting to go down that road, it's really taking a step back. Making sure it's what you want. And in that you don't have maybe a preconceived idea of what this is going to look like. It's not all glamorous. It's not like some big fat paycheck right out of school that you're just like, Ooh. Um, you know, I mean, I went into it with a little bit of a wrong impression of like from a salary perspective where I was going to be, and like all these different things. I had to learn some hard lessons on that. And so I think making sure you're getting into it for the right reasons on the front side is super important. Um, But I think as far as why it's happening, gosh, I think there's a lot of reasons. Um, and I don't, I certainly am not wanting to point fingers at like, oh, you know, the, you know, the employer. Or doing, doing us a disservice they're making people work too hard. And in some cases, certainly that could be true. I mean, there, there are probably situations where that's true, but one of the things that I've evolved with over the 10 years is I've, I've dabbled in the business world and I've been managing practices and I've seen the back end side of how expensive it can be to, to run a practice, especially an insurance-based practice for reimbursements are declining and all these different things are happening. I think as an employee, you have to also view it from your employer's side in certain situations to realize kind of what it takes to run a successful business and to care for people well, and to invest in your, in your business. So I think sometimes the employer gets all the, all the burden of carrying this, like, oh, you're just working people to death. And it's again, in some cases that could be true. But, um, I do think we get in, in ruts where. It becomes just a job. And when we lose sight of the fact that we chose a career path, right. And again, not to be little things that are considered a job, a nine to five or anything, but as a physical therapist, like you're a medical professional. And to me, when you're a medical professional, you chose. Career where you don't punch a clock. Like, in my mind, I'm always wearing the hat of being a physical therapist. I'm a first responder. If I come across someone in neat, like I have to stop and like handle that situation, I feel like we bear a lot. Burden kind of on a constant basis. I mean, even with family members, like, oh, Hey, did I asked you about my knee? You know, like you're constantly having to like think, right. So I think it can get a little overwhelming and I think taking a step back and saying, you know, where am I at? What have I done? What did I think I wanted to do? Has that changed? Or do I still want to do. This thing, and I just haven't figured out what steps I need to take to accomplish that goal. And I needed to maybe step back, make a change, do some, do some education, do some digging to get to the spot where I want to be. And I think when you're working and you're just trying to grind it out and get a paycheck, you can lose sight of that. Um, and that happened to me a couple of different times.

Mike: 13:01

Yeah. And, and I appreciate that concept too. Of I've been in situation where, you know, I don't want to say you're in a zone of like nine to five, but you know, your priority was outside of work for a certain period of time. Your focus was elsewhere, whether it be family or personal stuff, or, you know, commitments outside, um, To me that, uh, when that happens, sometimes it seems like work becomes the grind. Um, one, one thing I've done, you know, and I think this, this goes to your point of like evolving as a clinician is I always have something I'm trying to get better at, right. And professionally, that is always happening too. So there's always like a piece of me I'm trying to evolve as a professional, but then I also have something that's completely unrelated to physical therapy at all times that I'm working at getting better at. Right. And, and I, I think that's, that's so huge. So, um, you know, That's on the personal side. Um, you know, I'm curious what you think though, of evolving as a clinician, right? So you have somebody that is maybe five, six years out of school, maybe even 2, 3, 4, right? We're in the early phase of their career and they're starting to feel a little burnt out. Uh, is there something you'd recommend they do to kind of start that evolution?

Ashley: 14:45

Yeah, I think for me, the things that really would help and continue to help when I do feel like I'm getting into a little bit of a funk or slump is getting involved, um, professionally, so going to meetings and obviously COVID put a little bit of a damper on the in person stuff, but it's starting to come back around and although it's a time and a money investment, I think it is. Credibly worth it, in my opinion. I mean, that's where I get to sit down and have, you know, conversations with you and with Kevin Wilke and with all these people that I don't get to see on a day to day basis, but who like remind them. What my goals are and you know, it kind of invigorates me a little bit to be like, okay, I am having fun. I just need to like, get out of my day-to-day head and like, say so it's not even just what you learn at a meeting educationally or professionally, you know, what's the latest research on this or that it's that opportunity to network and to talk to the people who've kind of come before you and, and, and paved a pathway to. Just pick their brain. And that probably for me has been the biggest game changer as far as keeping me just kind of nibbling away at like, what's the next thing I want to do.

Mike: 15:54

Yeah. and great advice because I do think even myself still to this day, I come back from a meeting and either some conversations or a presentation that I saw, I do sit back and I, I get a little excited. I get a little, you know, we geek out a little bit at these meetings and then you come back excited about something and you want to implement something new. It kind of gets you going. You know, it's funny, like as a family post COVID, now, what we've started to do is, um, as the, as we're starting to do a little bit more, we just went on a family vacation just as an example. And I'll be honest with you. I don't know what was more exciting, the actual vacation, which is the first one we've had in years with the kids or the two months leading up to that. Right. And the excitement of it coming. So it's, we, we kind of said that as a family, we want to set like a rule that we always want to be. We want to get things in the books that we have something to look forward to. And you know, you, you really made me think about that professionally too. I think that might be some great advice. You know, book to go to like CSM or a big conference and look forward to it and be excited about that because you know, like, man, I can't wait to get the CSM. I'm going to try to go to these talks and learn from these people. I think that would be a really great tip for people. That was awesome.

Ashley: 17:10

Yeah, I do that too, from the, on the personal side as well. So having those little things to look forward to is super helpful on your calendar

Mike: 17:18

Okay. What are you working on right now? Outside of professional? What are you trying to get better as a person.

Ashley: 17:24

as a person. Um, I

Mike: 17:26

I would side of physical therapy.

Ashley: 17:27

I have a I'm reading, I'm reading this book. Have you read the.

Mike: 17:32

Oh, I think again. by Adam Grant. Yes, I have. Yes.

Ashley: 17:36

So I'm about, I'm like right at the halfway point. So that's coming with me on my vacation to finish up. But, um, so it's exactly what it sounds like for those that haven't read it is just kind of stopping the whole, like as soon as you hear some. Like contrary to what you believe to not like shut that down. And I have found myself as I'm getting older, getting kind of stuck in my ways, on certain things, both personally and professionally. And as I kept hearing about this book and I was like, you know what, I need, I want to read that. And it's funny. Cause I started like, you know, a couple of pages then I'm like, clearly the author and I are not on the same page on some things. And I was like, I'm going to hate this book.

Mike: 18:15

You're like, wait a minute. Thank again. Thank you. Yeah.

Ashley: 18:17

like, okay, the whole. The reading of the book is to not do exactly. So I actually am very much enjoying it again. There's some stuff in it where I'm just like, yeah, you and I aren't on the same page, but I hear your perspective. And I I'm thinking about that. So, um, yeah, I'm trying to be a little bit more open minded globally.

Mike: 18:35

Yeah. Yeah. And we have, when you look at a student and you look at what they've just been through for 6, 7, 8 years, and then studying for the boards and then sometimes doing a residency and doing all these things. OMG. They there's so much going on their head. Like that's one of the first things I often tell them to do. And you know, it's funny at like champion, we w like, we're all, we're currently all trying to become better golfers. So, you know, a good

Ashley: 19:00

Okay.

Mike: 19:00

but like that that's current. That's our

Ashley: 19:02

help

Mike: 19:02

thing. There, there there's, there's enough of us that are trying to get there better together, but the students see it. Like we're constantly. So yesterday our topic of discussion was tempo and putting, right. And that was, we talked about it for three hours, right. Just off and on and, and practicing in between patients and stuff. So, you. know, uh, but I, I, I do that intentionally sometimes with the students, because I want them to see, and I want early career professionals to just give them, give me one little thing, learn how to play the guitar. Um, start training for America. Um, start working out in the gym, you know, go learn Olympic lifts or something, do something other than putting your nose in a dang physical therapy book and practicing how to massage people. Right? Like that's not what growth is. So, um, so

Ashley: 19:48

Yeah. My, my big one is so that I'm onto this book, but I've been trying to alternate like a fiction book and then like something that's not a therapy, the PT related education, but like a personal growth thing. And I've, I'm knocking out several books so far, so doing a lot more reading a lot less Netflixing um,

Mike: 20:07

Yeah. I like it. Yeah. no, I think we get all deal with that. So, Um, all right. Next big topic, I think, and this is one that, uh, I'm hearing more and more from, from young clinicians, um, is the concept of imposter syndrome. Right. And I liked this one because, um, you know what I, from the students that I've talked to recently about this, I take it as a very. Um, noble feeling that they're having, when they say I'm dealing with some imposter syndrome. Right. And what, what I mean by that is they're putting so much pressure on themselves, uh, to, to have all the answers, to be able to fix and heal. Everybody take away everybody's pain in one session, right. That they, they feel like sometimes they're not worthy of that. Um, you know, that to me has become, you know, a common theme that works. What are some of the strategies that you'd recommend for people? If they're dealing with this imposter syndrome?

Ashley: 21:05

gosh, I mean, I definitely deal with this all the time, but. I think, you know, I, it's always going to realize what you don't know. I think being humble and, and realize that it actually, I think this was a topic on like ask Mike Reinold show recently or at one of the ones I listened to and I was cracking up. Cause it wasn't a Lenny that was like, I've never heard of

Mike: 21:26

Exactly. Yeah. Yep. That was Lenny.

Ashley: 21:28

okay. Yeah. Lenny knows everything.

Mike: 21:31

Well, you know, it's, it's, it's, it's a generational thing too. And, and, you know, I, I think we

Ashley: 21:37

like when things get a term like this, like you all of a sudden put a label on it. It's like everyone in the entire history of time has had this issue. It just didn't get called imposter syndrome. Right. Surely that most people along the way or. I am totally out of my, like wheelhouse here and people are looking at me like, I'm the expert. Like, so I think, I think knowing what you don't know and not feeling like you have to have an answer for everything and really like, like with patients, if you, if you get stuck, I mean, I have a pretty good clinician, but there are times where I'm like, okay, I'm going to point you over to my colleague over here, because he is way better with overhead lifters and shoulder pathologies and issues, especially with what you've got going on than I am. And I'm out of all my tricks, like,

Mike: 22:28

Right.

Ashley: 22:28

and I don't feel bad about that. You know, I think realizing that not knowing everything is actually okay. And it, and, and being open and about that. an issue. So I think when I finally stepped back and was like, okay, you don't have to fix everyone and you cannot fix everyone. It's just, then you just kind of do the best you can. There's always going to be someone who's smarter than me and someone. Who's not as smart as me, you know, like,

Mike: 22:55

Right. And I think you just need to experience that, to see that that patient will go to your colleague. They'll work with them for a little bit, but they still love you because of it. And you're still like, in their circle and things are going to go great. And then they're gonna bounce back on your schedule for something, you know what I mean? It's, it's, it's not the end of the world. You didn't lose, you didn't fail, you know? I think those are big ones. And I think sometimes that people don't realize, like if we're working with somebody for let's just say eight weeks, right. And just make something up here. That's not a linear progress from zero to eight weeks where the person just gets better every day. There's going to be a week. There's probably going to be several weeks in there where you're going to have. And maybe they get worse and maybe, you know, they get frustrated because they've plateaued a little bit. Uh that's what happens as humans, right? Like that is not, uh, unacceptable. so just be prepared for that.

Ashley: 23:47

Yeah.

Mike: 23:49

So awesome. All right. So other thing I wanted to talk to you about, because I know this is something that you believe in, and this is something that you're trying to get better at yourself, but is mentoring young professionals. Right, And I know, I know you've talked a lot about mentorships and stuff. If you had to talk to a young clinician right. now, that's looking for a mentor, what would be some recommendations on how to seek out a good mentor and really cultivate that really.

Ashley: 24:17

Yeah, I think you need to figure. You know, what do you want to be mentored on? And I think it doesn't have to be one specific thing. Um, and I started thinking back on like who my mentors are, like my key people. And how did that even evolve? And how did I figure that about? And a lot of it came from on the front side. It wasn't like, oh, I went on to be a sports physical therapist. Who's really good at X, Y, Z. I'm going to seek that person out for a mentor. It was more like, I vibe really well with that person. Like we can have a conversation about anything, life, whatever, and I feel like I'd walk away and I'm like, I'm a more knowledgeable, better person because of that. So I think trying, when you just trying to figure out who you want to be a mentor, it's more of like a personality click than it is so much about. Like they have all the knowledge that I want to like take in. Um, and you can have more than one mentor. But I think making sure you're, I always joke with people. I'm like, uh, you have to let me know if you want me to mentor you. Like you can't just like label me as like that person's my mentor. But like, I have no idea that I'm involved in this relationship, right?

Mike: 25:23

Because that could go really poorly. Yeah. Right. You, you, you maybe

Ashley: 25:28

to let the person know.

Mike: 25:29

you, you may be more negatively mentoring them than positively, but I guess that's, it's still mentoring, I guess.

Ashley: 25:35

Exactly. So, yeah, I think just, you know, not again, and you kind of brought this up about another topic is I think realizing like you are a human and then you're in, in your, you happen to your physical therapist, your, so your human who happens to be a physical therapist. I think having a good human connection is what really makes a solid mentorship more so than like we have the same interests professionally. Um, and I think that's where my strongest mentor. In my career so far have come from a really strong like human connection. And then it evolved from the professional side in various ways. So, you know, some more businessy, some more like sports medicine, like treatment wise.

Mike: 26:17

Right, right. And, and don't get frustrated if you are, you know, you shouldn't expect your mentor in your mentorship, for example. To just be feeding you information. Like you just sit there passively and somebody is feeding you information. I don't think that's a realistic expectation of mentorship. Anyway, it's a lot of my mentors. I think you could argue mentor to me more through, uh, just leaving. By watching how they do things right. And, and watching them and experiencing how they interact and, and even some of their practices that they do for their, for themselves. right. How do they, how do they lead their career? How do, what do they do? Um, I think I've learned more by that from my mentor as than actually my mentor sitting down and teaching me something

Ashley: 27:05

Yeah. Yeah. I think that, yeah, I agree. I think there's this preconceived idea that mentorship is like, we're going to sit down for an hour and talk about hip pathology today. It's like, you already know hip pathology, like, well, let's talk about how to grow as a, as a person or as a, as a clinician, as a whole, not in like one particular area. So yeah, I totally agree with you on that,

Mike: 27:26

Yeah, And don't expect somebody to just sit down and take an hour out of every week to teach you about hip pathology. right? That's that's you do that on. And then what you do is you watch them, they, they lead by example, you experience how they, how they interact with people, how they, how they talk through things. But then more importantly is how do they grow? How do they stay current? How do they advance their, uh, their, or like we said earlier in the episode, evolve as a clinician themselves, to me, that's the best type of, uh, mentorship. I love that. So.

Ashley: 27:58

I think the other big thing, just one last comment on. I realize that you don't have to be a carbon copy of your mentor. And I think this is where early in my career, I had to learn real fast. For those who know my boy, he's one of my mentors. And so with speaking and teaching, I would be on the road with, with Mike and Brandon and I'd be watching them and I'd be like trying to mimic them, almost like caught myself, like trying to present, like they present. And I'm like, that's not me that, and it comes off as disingenuous and like kind of silly because Mike is a goof. And I like, if I try and talk like, Um, and tell his stories. They don't pop off, like they pop off from him. So I had to learn how to like, become my own speaker and learn what my vibe is and what sounds natural for Ashley. Um, but I still learned a lot from watching him. I just had to realize I didn't need to be like a carbon copy of him. And I think that's important globally.

Mike: 28:57

Yeah. and Yeah, exactly globally. Like you don't have to treat exactly the same. You don't have to interact with your clients. Right? Like I have a completely different relationship with my patients than my students will because, you know, I have long standing relationships with a lot of my patients that I've worked with them and their families for years. Right. And they come in for an evaluation. Right. And the student thinks it's the first time visit evaluation. All of a sudden we're like full on. They're confused about why you gotta find your, your own cadence. I like that. And you know, a good example of that, which is funny, which is, you know, the same world you're in is, but the TPI guys, the title is performance Institute group. I think a great example of when you go to like a presentation and there's a few of them, right? There's, there's a lot of faculty members with TPI obviously, but there's a few of them presenting right there. Three completely different people. Right. And, and amazing. And the great part like that you see is that all their personalities come out. And you know what? I guarantee you that if you there's three speakers and you have everybody in the room and you divide them all up, a third of the room are going to say, I jive with that person. A third of the room is going to jive with the other one and the third of the rooms can drive the other. And that's, that's how I think that's a Great. way to find you is who, Who do you jive with? Who can you. Hang out with, right? Like, like who would you want to

Ashley: 30:15

you want to grab a beer with after class?

Mike: 30:17

Exactly. I think that's, that's a great way of thinking. So Awesome Ash, great advice. Appreciate you taking some time out to doing, uh, to doing this episode. Uh, one thing I like to end with a little segment called the high five, just five quick questions, five quick answers, just to learn about where you're at your head, we've already kind of talked about some of them, but where you're at a little bit of your growth mindset, so people can see that Ash is still growing. But first one, what are you currently reading? Other? You have to, you have to do something. So not just. What are you currently working on for your own professional con ed?

Ashley: 30:52

I might be alluding to a little bit of what's what's coming up, but I'm, uh, working on. Stuff that someone else on this podcast might be helping out with. Um, so I I'm, I'm digging into some of the newer research coming out on hip rehab and pathologies. Um, I have a lot from all the talks I've done in the past, but I'm trying to make sure everything's the most up-to-date. You know, it's hard. I mean, I clearly have a busy schedule based on what we talked about earlier. And so sometimes I like totally miss things. I'm like, how did I miss that article? Like, so I'm kind of doing it. I'm kind of doing a deep dive into like, okay, what has come out in the last year that I've missed? Um, so that's what I'm working on right

Mike: 31:34

I love that. And just for the listeners to understand. So Ashley is the director of rehab of the national hip Institute and she is working on staying current with the hips. So keep that in mind, not everybody is just born with all the recent evidence in their head. You actually have to look for it. That's awesome. That's good. And you know, and it's funny, um, uh, Ariel Giordano, uh, also is coming on the podcast. And one of the things we're talking about with her, which I thought was awesome, was held them with Delaware, reviewed all their ACL guidelines and compared them to the recent evidence and wrote a paper on what they're going to revise. And I love that. It's like we can't be static. We have to keep growing. I love that. Good. All right. What is one thing that you've recently changed or evolved your thoughts?

Ashley: 32:21

I had two answers to this. I think I'm going to go with it's fun. Um, modalities. I feel like I went from like a very, like, I'm not a modalities per se, to like, you know what, there's something to do. A lot of this stuff that I think could be really helpful. Like, let me, let me start playing around with it a little bit more. So not that I necessarily thought modalities are bad. And I don't need them too much time to set that all up, whatever. So I've been digging into some shockwave and, um, I've had a laser for a while, but I have a shot at trialing out some shockwave stuff and kind of playing around with that. So that's fun.

Mike: 32:55

Yeah. I like even some of the basics that are coming out as funny, if you're a young professional on Instagram Right, now, it's, it's trendy to think like modalities are evil and they have ruined our profession and we are all terrible people because we use them. And now, like we're starting to see some evidence that me. Tens, right. Tens of all things and ice, maybe helpful at restoring quad strength after ECL. And I'm just like, oh boy, we're going to have some biases that are conflicting here. Look out. It's going to be bad. Uh, awesome. That's a good one. Uh, what's the one best piece of advice that you give you?

Ashley: 33:30

Um, I honestly just think that never stop learning. Like if you ever get to a really comfortable spot where you're just kind of crew. At that point, I'm like, okay, what do I need to learn? I just think constantly like that we keep coming back to this term, evolving as a clinician, like just don't get, don't get super comfortable. I mean, you know, challenge yourself. And I think that will keep you from a lot more satisfied.

Mike: 33:53

Yup. I, I think that's the phrase of the episode. I love it. I think that's a good mindset. I think we need to make t-shirts that say that right. Like Always. evolve. And I think that's going to be the title of this podcast episode. It's evolving as a clinician. I think, I think you just did it. That's awesome. But you're right. It's it's, that's so important. Um, all right, what's coming up next for you.

Ashley: 34:16

Yeah, some exciting stuff. Um, we're back to doing on in-person meetings. So I'll be at, um, in may, I'll be at the web PT ascend meeting as a guest speaker, and that's going to be in Charlotte, North Carolina, and then anything in Jr. And OSA is coming to Boston

Mike: 34:33

Oh,

Ashley: 34:33

September. So I'll be in Boston for which is a fantastic meeting. If any of you haven't heard of it or binge through it. Um, so I'll be speaking there and then it's just. Um, international society of hip arthroscopy is in October. Um, and then working on some fun projects in the background, hopefully to be totally complete and out the door, certainly before the end of the year, but as soon as possible. So I'm excited about a lot of stuff coming out

Mike: 35:00

Yeah. Great. Awesome. Yeah. And you sound busy. I like it. Um, if people wanted to learn more about you, what's the best place to find you. You have a website, social media, how do we keep learning from your Ashley?

Ashley: 35:11

Yeah. Oh gosh, such a neat. I'm not the best at social media. I'm on it a lot, but I'm not, I needed to be better about being active. I am Nash Ash, underscore PT on Twitter and Instagram. Um, and email wise, if you want to email me, it's aCampbell@jspt.org. It's probably. Um, but Nashville hip Institute is where my clinical practice is. So I know we didn't really talk about that as much, but maybe sometime I'll come back on. We'll talk all things here, but if you have hip questions have interests, especially in the non arthritic athletic hip hop pathology population, that's where you can find me. It's here in Nashville with Dr. Bird. And, um, but yeah, that's where you can find me.

Mike: 35:53

awesome. Great stuff. Well, thanks again for taking some time out of your busy schedule and coming on to share some of this, cause this is, I mean, these are the important conversations that the, that the people need to hear. So I appreciate you taking the time. Hopefully we'll get you on a future episode. Thanks so much.