Behind the Scenes of JOSPT with Clare Ardern - Episode 34

The Journal of Orthopedic and Sports Physical Therapy, or JOSPT, is one of the most well-read and prestigious journals in our field. Clare Ardern, Editor-in-Chief of the journal, has done an amazing job.

In this episode, she's going to share some exciting new things that JOSPT has been working on that I know you're going to love. Plus, we're going to take a peek behind the scenes of the editorial process of JOSPT, talk about her role as editor-in-chief, and she's even going to share some valuable advice for prospective authors on how to write the best manuscripts to increase your chances of publication.

Full show notes: https://mikereinold.com/behind-the-scenes-of-jospt-with-clare-ardern

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Transcript

0:34

On this episode of the sports physical therapy podcast. I am joined by Claire, our Dern Claire's the editor in chief of P T or the journal of orthopedic and sports, physical therapy. In this episode, she's going to share some exciting new things that JSP. Has been working on that. I know you're going to love, plus, we're going to take a peek behind the scenes of the editorial process of the journal. Talk about her role as editor in chief, and she's even going to share some valuable advice for prospective authors on how to write the best manuscripts to increase your chances of publication.

Mike: 1:16

Hey, Claire, welcome to the podcast. Thank you so much for joining.

Clare: 1:20

Thanks, Mike. It's a pleasure to join you and have the chance to chat with your listeners today.

Mike: 1:24

thank you so much for, for, for being here. Um, I mean, editor-in-chief of J S P T, that's, that's a big job. Uh, why don't we start with, with, with a little bit about your path. How did you, how do, how does one become the editor in chief of J S P T? I mean, it's such a, uh, a well-known and prestigious journal. Um, I mean that, that, that's a really impressive position for you to be in. Tell us a little bit about how you.

Clare: 1:50

Thanks, Mike. It's definitely a privilege to have this role, and it's a privilege because I. So many fantastic people through this job, and I get to see the cutting edge of research. I think my career got a bit fast tracked to editor-in-chief because I met a wonderful friend and mentor, professor Kaka, who many folks will know from his BJ s m editor-in-chief days, and I had the really good fortune of working with Caram on. On Bjsm for a number of years between 2015 and 2018. So I got to know the inside workings of a journal. And one of Carre's superpowers is that he's such a champion for young clinicians, young researchers, and particularly women. So I feel very fortunate to have made that connection with him who have had to have had the chance to work with him. And he's been a very, very important mentor for me, learning how. The ropes of editing a journal. And then he was also a really big, um, encourager behind me saying, yes, you should apply for the J O S P T job when that job came up. So that's kind of the backstory actually. It's a lot of sort of behind the scenes, learning how journals work and, and getting to know the ropes.

Mike: 2:58

Yeah. I mean you have to have some experience with that. And I will say, I mean, very obvious. I think a lot of people were excited when you joined J S V T because we, we saw how BJ s m really. Really improved over the years and became such a valuable journal that I think we all love reading now. Not as much as J R S B T, of course, but, uh, but but, but, um, but I think we saw that. So it's, it, it was really nice to see you, uh, come over from bj, s m You guys did a great job over there too.

Clare: 3:26

Thanks, Mike. And like all of these things, the cliche is to say it's a team effort and, you know, the, the champion team. What's the, what's the cliche? It's a team of champions, not a ch No, uh, it's a champion team, not a team of champions. was very much a, a champion team at. At bjsm and now at J O S P T. And I think that's one of the things I've learned over the years is that like, like all of the folks listening today, you all know this from working in sports, whether it's working in a team environment in sports, whether it's working in within your team in the clinic, that it's, it's all about working together, learning from each other, and you're better together. We're stronger together than we are individually. So that's very much my sort of default mode for J O S P T. And what I brought with me from BJ SM is that having the right people in the. Spots within the journal is crucial to making everything.

Mike: 4:16

That's amazing. And you can see it, you can see the success. And, uh, there's, there's so much that I think JR. S p t has grown over the years and it continues to keep growing. Um, what do you think some of your, your favorite or bigger accomplishments that you guys have made at. S b t, um, since you've taken over, like what are some of the things that you're most proud of?

Clare: 4:36

I think the most visible thing, that's not the journal itself. So I think let's, let's park the journal and the research and the, the product that people know and love and have done for the last 40 odd years that Js. PTs been in, in existence. The second most visible thing, perhaps behind the journal is the podcast, j O s P T Insights. And you've been a guest on the podcast now Twice. Thank you. Um, and I'm really proud of the, of, we, we got a lot of feedback from the community that people wanted a podcast they wanted. They wanted a different way of consuming research and consuming information, and I'm really proud of the work that we've put into the podcast. I, I constantly get feedback from people saying that they like listening to it, that they've used it in their classes, which is really kind of gratifying and it's, it's a, a privilege. Every week we get to chat with interesting people about different research that they've done or talking about how they've applied research in their clinical practice. So we're unashamedly focused on helping clinicians. You know, folks listening to us today out there in day-to-day clinical practice, figure out how is it that I take the stuff that's written on the journal page or printed on the journal page and, and actually implement it in my day-to-day practice.

Mike: 5:46

Which is pretty cool. And I think if you listen to this podcast, you, you probably listen to the Js p D Inside podcast. If you don't, you need to. That's very, really important. But, um,

Clare: 5:55

There's a lot of overlap in that Venn diagram.

Mike: 5:58

I, I, I would, I would imagine, um, y you know, I, I, I think people sometimes don't understand how much effort it takes. So kudos to you for doing that. There's a lot of work. Even just getting two people's schedules together are very challenging. Although you and I nailed it this week, by the way, we just happened to stumble across a time slot. But um, uh,

Clare: 6:20

I think that's the lot of podcast hosts, right? We're both POD podcast hosts, so it's like you just make yourself available. So I'm available. I need half an hour, that's all I've got. That's fine.

Mike: 6:31

I, you know, I, I always tell everybody too, when I started my website, which was about 15 years ago now, I 100% did it for me, and I'm still doing this for me. This is, I'm growing. Each time I get to sit down and talk to you, I'm growing. So much more knowledgeable myself. And if people get to enjoy it with me because we record it and share it with them, great. But like me writing an article or me doing a podcast there, it, it's a learning experience for me, and it's been so rewarding to be able to just connect with people like yourself and to just chit chat like this. I mean, you know, you're, you know, we said this a little bit before we started recording, but believe it or not, guys, Claire's a real person, right? She's, she's a real human. She's pretty cool in real life, by the way. I mean, you know, but like, you know, as the editor-in-chief of J S B T, sometimes you just see your name behind a wall and you don't realize that she's a pretty smart person that has a lot to share too. So, uh, but again, thank you, thank you for, for, for doing the podcast and all you do, because it is so rewarding to listen to it.

Clare: 7:27

Thanks, Mike, and I think it would be remiss of me if I didn't also mention a couple of other of the things that I'm really proud of that we're doing right now at. S p t one is that we've just launched a brand new journal called J O S P T Open, and I'd encourage folks to, um, have a look at the journal we've launched. There's an editorial in the March issue of J O S P T explaining what the new journal's about, what sort of content, when it's gonna come online, where we're, um, taking submissions for that journal right now. So I would encourage folks who have got some interesting research that they're thinking of, of submitting to a journal to really consider J O S P T open. The J S P T cases is, um, the third journal that J O S P T publishes, which is, it's sort of the name gives it the clues in the title cases. It's all about case reports. So please have a look at cases, um, the. Professor Chris Hughes is the editor of J O S P T cases, and Chris does a wonderful job at bringing together the case and the learning points from the case. So again, it's all about how do we take the learning points from that clinical case and put it into our practice. And I guess the other, the other interesting thing is the J O s PT blog, which is a great open source. It's kind of the town square for people to come in and share ideas. So I would encourage folks listening to us today, if you've got ideas, and I know you all do. Think about writing them down and think about sending an 800 word blog post into the J S P T blog and, and starting that conversation, cuz chances are, if you've been thinking about something, someone else in the community's also thinking about it and would love the chance to discuss those ideas with you.

Mike: 9:02

That's a great way of saying it. And so welcoming too. And what, what I really like to see, what I'm seeing you guys build here behind the scenes at J S P T is there's a lot of different avenues for people to get involved now. Right. You don't need to just work at like an epic clinical research center. Right. Which, which is challenging for a lot of people. Um, you can write some case studies, you can get those in J S P T cases. The, the J S P T open just opens up so much more, uh, avenues for more research to get published. Um, that I, I just, I, I think it's gonna be so helpful. But more importantly, right, and this is going a little bit off of what we said we were gonna talk about Claire, but like there's so many bad journals nowadays and there's so many predatory journals out there out, you know, knowing that J O SB T is gonna stand behind this and you and your editorial team are gonna make sure that these papers are quality, that means a lot to us. Right. So, you know, we appreciate that.

Clare: 9:56

No thank you. It's really important and I'm glad that you talk about predatory journals because they are just growing and growing and growing and anyone who's been affiliated with a, with a research institution will probably get the tons and tons of emails from these predatory journals saying, send me your paper on whatever random topic. So folks will, will certainly have known about predatory journals and definitely J S P T Open and J S P T cases. All have the same high level of, of peer review and editorial oversight as J O S P T, the J O S P T, that listeners know and loves. So we are really committed to making sure that whatever is published in J O S P T, whichever journal it is, is really high quality.

Mike: 10:37

That's, that's awesome. Um, tell us a little bit more about. As editor-in-chief cuz I, I don't think a lot of people understand exactly how much work you do and, and what you do in it. And I'd love to even hear a little bit about J S P T behind the scenes a little bit. Like how many submissions do you guys get on average? What's your acceptance rate like? What's the process like for these submissions? I think people that are new to this process, um, would really love to hear that coming straight from the editor-in-chief. I think that'd be,

Clare: 11:03

Sure. Well, let me start with the submissions. We get about a thousand submissions, manuscript submissions per year, and we can only publish between seven and 9% of them. So, so if, if you are there thinking, I got a reject letter from the editor, she's a horrible person. Um, my sympathies, I'm a researcher and, and as a researcher I understand that, you know, getting rejected is a common thing and it, it's, we all take it personally. So I do really understand. and we as an editorial team take those decisions really seriously. So we, we, we are really sort of focused on making J O S P T the best experience for you as an author, certainly as someone who's submitting your work to the journal. And we will try to work hard to think of other options and, and potentially make suggestions for you that if, if we don't think that this is a paper that. Can public can can live in J O S P T. It's not because it's bad research. I think that's the one, the one key message. If you take one thing away from this bit of the chat, please, as a researcher, particularly as an early career researcher, please, uh, persist with your work. It can feel really horrible when you get the reject letter from the journal. It's, it's. Not because your research is bad, it's because all journals have their particular niche that they've carved out, and they've, they're all dealing with many more submissions than they have space to publish. And we all, as an editorial team and our underscore team here, because at J O S P T, it's a team making the decision. It's not one person. You know, with the, the keys to the decision making apparatus, there's, there's multiple people who are looking at a paper who. Discussing the paper and discussing the merits and where it fits and, and in the priority list of papers, right? Because, because we have so many submissions, we do have to make priorities. We're unashamedly prioritizing work that has immediate clinical impact. So if some, if you're thinking about submitting your work to J O S P T, the inside kind of bit of. Information, I guess, is that when we as a senior editorial team, and there's five of us in that senior team, when we are considering papers, we're asking three really important questions. Number one, is it making an advance to the field? So is it the sort of heuristic is, is it new? Which sometimes I think can mean is it the first time that someone's ever thought about studying this before? That's not always the case, but really, is it making an advance on what we. Is it true? So is, are the, the research methods robust? Are the, are you as a researcher choosing the right type of research for your research questions? So if you're studying something about a treatment, have you chosen to, to use a randomized control trial, for example? And then the third bit is, is it gonna change the decisions? Clinicians and athletes or patients make in the prac, in clinic, in practice tomorrow. So we're really focused on immediate impact on clinical practice. And so if you can think about those three questions and your you, you feel comfortable and confident that your research is meeting those three questions, then please send it to Joe s p t. We'd love to have a look.

Mike: 14:16

And, and if you, if you, if you haven't yet rewind the last 30 seconds, 60 seconds here because uh, she just gave you the blueprint, right? She just told you Exactly. You can't get a better source too, and, and don't feel bad that over 90% of papers, nine out of 10 papers are gonna get rejected. And I've had papers rejected. Too. I mean, it all, it happens. I've disagreed with the comments at the time, don't get me wrong, but we, we've all had papers rejected just because there's, there's just so much quality stuff out there. So, you know, keep it going. I, I think that's the best way to do it. Um, on that note, I think you just gave us a bit of the blueprint, but I'm gonna flip it a little bit here. what are some of the things that you commonly see or you know, like what are the things that you see that sometimes maybe drive you crazier? What's your, the thing that you roll your eyes at the most when you say like, oh gosh, like, like how do you help an author increase their chances of getting and accepted by avoiding doing something? What is it that you're seeing too much of?

Clare: 15:39

I think the thing that frustrates me the most as a clinician and as a researcher is reading something, particularly a systematic review, and you probably listeners will know where this is going or have an inkling of where I'm going with this. You read the systematic review and the conclusion is we need more research. That's sort of the headline thing and why. and I'm a, a researcher who kind of specializes in synthesis in systematic reviews, meta-analysis, clinical practice guidelines, all of this kind of, you know, trying to, trying to bring research together to try to make sense of it. But it really bugs me in clinical research when you think, well, if all that you can say is we need more research in a clinical journal, that's probably not a great. A great conclusion. So I'm not suggesting you cl change your conclusion. That's spin and that also frustrates me and bugs me as a, as a, an editor as well, don't, don't make something out of nothing. But if your conclusion is, Hey, we actually have nothing in this field, then perhaps the field is not well developed enough for a systematic review. Or it's a journal that's much more focused on research methods or. Something else about this field. It's not necessarily something that's gonna resonate with the clinical audience. So I, I hope, and I'm pretty confident that if you're reading systematic reviews, at least published in J O S P T, you shouldn't find a headline conclusion that is simply, we need more research because I will really push back on that sort of stuff. I'm really, really committed to having something. Strong, robust research that is meaningful, that's answering or trying to answer a, an important clinical question.

Mike: 17:17

Right. And, and if you're doing those systematic reviews, then I would challenge you too, just as, as from my perspective, is maybe you need to narrow that down a little bit more, right? Because social media right now will take that and celebrate that as, oh, there's no evidence that this works. Right? And I've literally seen papers, Claire, of course not in J H P T, but elsewhere where it's, you know, does this manual therapy technique work for shoulder pain in people aged 18 to 75? And you're

Clare: 17:43

With a cherry on their head or

Mike: 17:45

it. Unbelievable. And then you'll have people on social media say, well see, this doesn't work. Well. It's not that it doesn't work. It's just so broad. And we're starting to see now systematic reviews of systematic reviews. Um, have we seen the first systematic review of systematic review of systematic reviews? Has that been published yet?

Clare: 18:04

I have seen them occasionally in the literature, but not in J O S P T I think the other point that I'd make, Mike, is that it is really important research builds on itself, right? So I'm not, I, I, I really hope that people are not taking the message away that I'm saying. You can't make comments about future research. Absolutely welcome those comments about fu future research. That's really important and that's part of the reason why. Why we do a systematic review and some of the conclusions that you draw. But I think my, my point here is that if that's the sole conclusion, then I would think really hard about whether J O S P T is the right place for your systematic review. And again, it's likely that it's a very, very good systematic review. You've used strong methods, you've done a really good job. The, the issue is about finding the right journal to reach the audience to whom you are trying, you're intending this systematic review so, I hope I've done a reasonable job at outlining who the J O S P T audience is, and that we're very much focused on the clinician reader,

Mike: 19:03

And as an audience of J S P, I'm there. I agree with you. And those are the types of articles that we really appreciate that we gain from. And we always teach our students, as we say, like, um, and what am I gonna do different tomorrow based on this article? And, and that's the most impactful one. And there's a lot of times that an article doesn't. Change anything we do, and that's okay too. But it's, it's, it's, it's an interesting approach when you think of it that way. So I applaud you for doing that. So, um, amazing stuff. Before I let you go, Claire, I like to end with what I call the high five. It's kind of cheesy. I need a better name, but it's been a year now and I haven't found a better name. But, um, five quick questions. Five quick answers to just get to know you a little bit more on how your brain works, but one. What are you currently working on for your own Con Ed? What are you doing for your professional development

Clare: 19:53

Well, I'm hoping you'll allow me to share something that I just finished at the end of last year. We're early, still, early-ish in 2023, so in at the very end of 2022, and actually the certificate just arrived a few days ago. So I'm hoping that counts. Mike

Mike: 20:07

I

Clare: 20:08

I finished, I finished an online course through Oxford University on women's leadership, and it was the best six weeks of my life really. It was amazing. I learned so much about things like how to negotiate, how to effectively mentor people. What's the difference between mentoring and coaching? It taught me. About it gave me some language around leadership and my leadership style and other styles that I'd seen others use and what might work well in a certain scenario, and how to dial things up and dial things down, and how to develop skills in mentoring and coaching. So it was phenomenal and I would really commend that course to any of the women listening to us today.

Mike: 20:46

I love it. I love it. And as a father of two girls, I can't wait for them to take that course. That'd be amazing. So, um, daughters are awesome. So um, um, what is one thing that you've recently changed your mind about?

Clare: 20:59

Um, I used. I was so committed and so proud of my, I never thought I would relinquish my badge of honor as an all weather cyclist. I would ride outside in the rain, in the snow, in the hail, in the sunshine, in the 40, uh, 40 degrees Celsius. Whatever that converts to over a hundred decrees Fahrenheit, I would do it. And I was so proud of my badge of honor, but I have recently set my bike up inside on an indoor trainer and become completely hooked on Swift, and I love it.

Mike: 21:34

That's actually interesting. Is that your thing or are you a big cyclist?

Clare: 21:37

I am since, since my knee injury got to the point where I couldn't run anymore, and that was really difficult and devastating as, as many folks can understand. But cycling has, ensw particularly has been a a, a savior for sure.

Mike: 21:52

Very neat. Very neat. That was a great answer. I like that one. Um, what's your favorite piece of advice that you love to give young profess?

Clare: 22:00

I like to let people know to take comfort that their career will progress and that it will grow, and I think it's often. Certainly when I first started out my career, I would look to mentors and people who were giants in the field and think, oh my goodness, I'm never gonna get there. I'm always gonna feel like I'm stuck at this beginning position. Like, I dunno anything. And I guess it's a bit of that imposter syndrome. So I would like people to take heart that your career does. Evolve and grow and develop. And I'm not saying that that doesn't happen with a bit of luck, and we certainly don't, unfortunately, live in a meritocracy. And some of us have more opportunities than others by din where we've grown up or, or the color of our skin or our gender. Um, so I'm not, not. Um, discounting all of those things, but I think it is really important to remember that your career will grow and that when, when you're starting out, it's normal to feel that sense of, am I really accepted here? Do I really have the skills and the expertise to belong here? And to be honest, I still feel like that when sometimes when I walk into a certain places. I don't know that that ever completely disappears, but I hope that people can learn to trust their, that their knowledge and their skills and, and what they're bringing to the table is valued and important.

Mike: 23:19

That's amazing. Great one too. Um, what's coming up next for you and or J A S P T, but you in particular too?

Clare: 23:27

We are expanding the J S V T editorial board from 35 people to, I'm not gonna say how many exactly, but we're expanding

Mike: 23:37

That's

Clare: 23:37

and I'm really, really looking forward to getting to know the new members and getting to work with them. We've got our big board meeting coming up next month and it's always, um, just such a joy to connect with the editorial board, learn about the new things that are happening in their. Fields and for all, all of us to work together to do our own. It's our own professional development as an editorial board and we take that really seriously. So, so that's what I'm looking forward to on a personal level, just because it's such a privilege to connect with all of these different people from all around the world, from different backgrounds and on a professional and A S P T level two.

Mike: 24:13

That's so cool. I love it. Um, well how can we learn more about you? Obviously it's js pt.org if you're interested in js, PT and all the great resources. But what about yourself too? Do you have any social medias or anywhere that you'd like to share so people can learn more about you and Js P T?

Clare: 24:31

I am on Twitter, Claire underscore ar on Twitter. I don't. I've actually deliberately made. The pull back from Twitter, pre Elon Musk, pre all the craziness. Um, partly, partly because as a woman, and I wanna acknowledge this for your audience as well, it is, it can feel quite difficult as, particularly as a woman, and I know many people have some horrible experiences on social media, so that was a conscious decision. I do tweet their occasionally and certainly I tweet, it's, it's research tweets, it's not personal stuff, so people can follow me on Twitter. I have a research gate page for anybody who's looking for my research papers, or not the papers, but the records as things are published. And PubMed is the same. So anybody who's the kind of researcher, geek listening out there will know all of those resources.

Mike: 25:21

That's great.

Clare: 25:22

And of course, if you wanna, if you, if you like listening to an Aussie accent, you can listen to me on the O S P T.

Mike: 25:28

That's the only reason why I listen, to be honest with you. And it has nothing to do with the guests, but yes, I agree. It's a, it's, it's, it's an added perk, which is, which is great. But, um, and I, I completely agree. I just said the other day to somebody at work that you're either a bully or getting bullied on Twitter, it's one of the two. It's like, oh, there is. So it's a, it's just turned into such a, such an interesting place. So, uh, I'm definitely on there, less and less, unfortunately, but that's why I get to. Spending time with people like yourself in person, sort of through this podcast, through this video, we get to see each other and talk. And, um, again, I am so appreciative of you taking out time to do this and to give back to, uh, the audience. I think we've all learned a lot. So thanks again, Claire.

Clare: 26:09

Thanks, Mike. It's a pleasure to chat with you and to chat with the listeners today.